Implemented Lobster Shore PowerUP spot

Discussion in 'Suggestions (archive)' started by R4_, Sep 16, 2018.

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  1. R4_

    R4_ Member

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    So recently it emerged on the newly added VSH LobsterShore map that there is an easter egg where an engineer can do hit a number of bricks hidden around the map and then build a teleporter in the right spot which leads them to a credit room with mannco powerups. Anyone can then enter this room and equip all the mannco powerups at once which not only leads to them being able to kill the hale in 2 seconds flat but can cause them to timeout people nearby with projectiles.

    I'd like to propose this room be banned and this be noted in the VSH rules.
     
  2. dino

    dino get out of report Legacy Admin

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    So it was only recently (today) found out that you can teleport to a secret room with mann power powerups allowing you to get insane weapons using the crossbow or sniper rifle (or any weapon in general). This makes it quite unbalanced for hale, as even a solo medic can get 5000 damage in a few seconds. Also, the explosions caused a crash for many people at once sometimes, and we don't want it to happen again.

    Now, I'm not saying to remove the map as it is a VERY good map and a lot of people agree with me that it is one of the best in rotation right now, just ban the secret room when it has the powerups. The secret room on its own is fine, the map is also fine, just the secret room with the mann power powerups.
    [​IMG]
    Many regulars hate it on the first rotation they found out about it, many also calling it cheating. Again, we don't want the map removed, just ban the secret room area.
     
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  3. Forged Identity -m3lon-

    Forged Identity -m3lon- Member

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    Being on the server when this was happening, I don't think the secret room is unbalanced when one person has the usage of the power ups however if an entire team has the use of the power ups it then makes it very difficult for the hale to kill the reds. (As they output nearly 3 times more damage than usual with perma crits on some weapons) however another case that can be made for this room is just banning engineers from building in that room or just banning the access to the power ups (because the power ups are controlled by a separate trigger). Another point to be made for keeping this room is hale can hit the bricks to open the access to the room and take it before a red can meaning that if a hale knows about the secret he can actively try and stop them from opening it as well as the power ups. If anyone wants to see how the secret is done so they can form their own opinion on the matter the link to a video detailing it is here:
    In short I don't think this room should be banned because if the hale knows to keep an eye on the bricks he can stop them from accessing the room completely or access it himself.
     
  4. R4_

    R4_ Member

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    Expecting most hales to have an intimate knowledge of map secrets, especially from a new map isn't realistic. Most regulars were unaware till today of the room, thus balancing on the basis of that doesn't make sense.
    Even one player with all the powerups is superpowered, combine this with an experienced player and it becomes almost impossible to beat for any hale.
    That's beside's all the timing out issues.

    This spot should be banned under all circumstances.
     
  5. Forged Identity -m3lon-

    Forged Identity -m3lon- Member

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    Again, I still can't agree with you and I don't think banning it under all circumstances is necessary. if a hale has a rage and has enough knowledge to use it at the right time the red is dead. however then the problem of getting close enough to a red is a problem, this is then fixed by the super jump *which every hale has access to* as they can super jump to the red with the power ups (which as I said in the previous post aren't required to access the secret room). even if the hale has no rage he still has access to his super jump and he can use the teleporters throughout the map to get to other spots. I think its just more difficult for unskilled hales to kill the one red (regarding what I said in my previous post about banning engineers from building is implemented). I have the same opinion dino does as he said in his post.
    but if you still choose to disagree you're entitled to your own opinion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  6. R4_

    R4_ Member

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    I'm sorry but you are a bit detached from reality here, fact is until earlier almost no one including the regular admins knew of the room. You cannot expect an averaage hale to know how to block the room, balancing based on the fact very experienced hales may be able to block it makes no sense.
    VSH is balanced as it is, allowing people to multiply their weapons stats by 3 times the normal, increase speed etc is not balanced in any sense of the word. An experienced hale might be able to block it but balancing is about considering not only experienced players but the majority who are mediocre.

    Nor does this address the fact that players can easily time other players out using the powerups supplied in the room.
     
  7. Forged Identity -m3lon-

    Forged Identity -m3lon- Member

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    I get that we are never going to see eye to eye on this matter but for now I'm going to stop commenting and give other people time to make up their own opinions on the secret but before I stop commenting on the thread I want to address your point about the time out. This only happens because people can't render the explosions on their machines (I'm not saying its their fault for having a bad computer because I timed out on this as well) it can be easily avoided by as I have said earlier stopping engineers from building in the room thereby meaning access to the room is limited to one person per round. The only reason everyone's game crashed was the amount of projectiles if this was limited to one player I think it would stop the majority of players from crashing. Whilst this may not work for everyone I think its unfair to stop people from using the room because other people's machines cannot handle the rockets. there is probably a way around it crashing people for example a custom config, for those who can't run the game with all the explosions.
     
  8. dino

    dino get out of report Legacy Admin

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    I personally don't think it's fair for people to have access to these powerups seeing what 1 medic could do, just wanna get my opinion straight.
    Nobody knew about it earlier today, but now people know about it and will try to counter it. I still get what you're saying about it being unbalanced, because, well, 5k damage in less than 10 seconds, let alone 30, isn't exactly fair.
     
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  9. R4_

    R4_ Member

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    Timeouts aren't related to the speed of the computer, there is an upper limit on entities and projectiles the engine can render no matter how powerful your computer.
    Limiting it to one person per a round would not fix this issue either, since they could just leave the room then crash people around them indiscriminately. In fact if you did it strategically you could empty the entire server almost in one round, which is clearly not desirable.

    Ignoring the fact for a second that the room's bonuses are extremely unbalanced and unfair, are you seriously suggesting we should not stop players from doing something that crashes other players because it would deny them access to a poorly thought out and overpowered easter egg?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  10. dino

    dino get out of report Legacy Admin

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    Updating on this quickly.
    Warning:
    Do not go to the secret room with powerups as sniper and grab the biohazard powerup with the other ones.
    [​IMG]

    This powerup crashes the game when it gets rendered in, as the explosions stacking (which are bad enough) reneder too fast and anyone looking at it when it happens instantly crashes and gets sent to their desktop, no message.
    This is very dangerous, and I suggest the map gets removed ASAP until we find a fix or can contact pigpig, the map maker. (note: this bug has crashed me and others at least 3 times.)
     
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  11. nephew

    nephew Member

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    music btw

    4 people crashed from this
     
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  12. R4_

    R4_ Member

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    Backing this, the map needs to be removed until the issues are fixed.
    Players are regularly crashing eachother and emptying the server already.
     
  13. The Acidic Ham Man

    The Acidic Ham Man Legacy Admin

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    Never actually intended that in any way, I apologised to the people I caused to crash after that as that was my fault completely, never actually knew crit sniper rifle just crashed everything.

    "Regularly crashing eachother" nobody intends to crash the server, the map is great and fun to play on but here's a better and more optimal solution (if possible) is to remove the biohazard powerup and to disable the ability to build buildings in the powerup room. Also completely agree to what dino said basically.
     
  14. R4_

    R4_ Member

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    Intent is irrelvant, people are crashing eachother on a regular basis with this map. People might not intend to do it but they are doing it, sure you even did it in the video by accident. This is exactly why the map needs to be removed from the rotation ASAP until a solution is found to mitigate these problems, which would likely be in the form of a custom plugin.
    Until such time I can't see how anyone can defend keeping a map were players are regularly being crashed.
     
  15. dino

    dino get out of report Legacy Admin

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    People arent crashing others on a "regular basis", this barely happens. Yes, it is still a problem, I agree with that but you are overdramarizing it.
     
  16. R4_

    R4_ Member

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    Not when admins are no, however I've encountered it numerous times already when they are not.
    Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean i'm "overdramarizing" it.
     
  17. nephew

    nephew Member

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    The map should be removed. The powerups are just too powerful to play against. 1 player with enough brain in their head could kill hale single-handedly and a team of power-up people would be retarded and could crash the server.
     
  18. n0name

    n0name Administrator

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    Removed the map for the time being.
     
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