Resolved Concerning the punishment of the surfers on the top 100 server

Discussion in 'Report a problem (archive)' started by Uglefar, Oct 20, 2015.

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  1. Uglefar

    Uglefar Member

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    Hello everybody.
    This is going to be a long post, so I am going to divide it into chapters, but first a tl;dr.

    TL;DR
    A lot of surfers on the top 100 server was punished due to the use of an exploit. These surfers were punished through a removal of 20% of their points.

    Background information
    In case you might not know, what is going on, here is a small piece of background information.

    Some surfers on the top 100 / donator server recently found an exploit on the map Calibration. This exploit allowed surfers to complete the map in about 7 seconds, whereas the normal record would be at least a minute slower. This exploit has been there for some time now, and has been a known problem for just as long. How to do the exploit was spread around the surfers and pretty much all knew how to do this.

    Last day Montyyy wrote a comment on the suggestions page where he complained about this use of exploit. Only now did someone react and do something about this.

    Montyyy suggested resetting the map and removing the points earned through these times aswell as an additional punishment.
    Montyyy could have suggested to just reset the exploited times, as I actually thought he did, but apparently that did not happen.

    "matt had a really good time (WR) on it and ppl just dump him, srsly?"

    If this is the real complaint, then I have to say: There was NO reason to actually reset the entire map. We are talking about 15 exploited times maybe that had to be resetted. That's not a huge ammount of work. On a sidenote, I honestly don't even think matt would care.


    The punishment
    Now for how the rest of punishment was done.

    Of course the times was removed. This is completely fair and understandable.

    When I heard they were talking about a punishment, I started to figure out, what i personally would find fair. I looked at the rules once to figure out what might happen.

    General Rules:
    No cheating.
    Do not use Glitches/Bugs/etc of any kind (e.g. empty name exploit, map bugs,...).

    Ban Proceeding:
    Swearing = 1 Week -> 1 Day
    Spamming = 1 Hour -> 4 Hours
    Pornographic Sprays = 1 Week-> 1 Month
    Note: Please attach a screenshot of the spray in question to the ban's comment section
    Glitching = 1 Hour -> 1 Day

    So 1 hour to 1 day ban maybe?

    No.

    Fair enough, it says aswell that "We reserve the right to change the rules at any time", so I guess I can't complain that this is not what happended.
    What did happen instead was that surfers has lost a different ammount of points. This is where my real complaint starts.

    Why would you ever punish your most loyal top surfers on the server the hardest? Urination, previously rank 1, lost 30.000 points. I lost 15.000 points (previously rank 6, now rank 15). This does not make any sense at all. Why would you just remove 20 % of a players points?

    Is it really these players you want to hit?


    Was it even fair to punish these surfers?
    On papir, yeah. It was fair. Everything is in the rules and I cannot argue against that.

    BUT
    the additional punishment was honestly not needed. Personally I did the exploit for the very first time yesterday. 10+ people had aleredy done it, and I thought: Why not have a bit of fun and try it out aswell. These times had to be deleted anyway, so why not. There was never really any warnings except for the fact that rules had aleredy been made. The exploit has litterally been known for weeks and nothing has been done at all. If you really did not want people to do it, do something about it.



    Ugle, now I'm confused. What is it that you really want to tell us?
    Allright fair enough, this is suddenly too long of a thread.

    This is what I want to say:

    • Punishment of 20 % was stupid. It hits the loyal top surfers too hard.
    • Resetting the map completely was just dumb. If you really had a problem with matt losing the WR at least.
    • I do not even think a punishment was needed overall. Removing times and points gained should have been enough.


    Rant is over. I know it is extremly salty, but I honestly do not think actions has been thought through with this one.
    //Uglefar
     
  2. Downie

    Downie CEO of Downcorp Retired Staff Member

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    Where did you got that from?
     
  3. Uglefar

    Uglefar Member

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    DeadlyTruth was told this by noname. Also I did the math on some of the players who did this exploit.
     
  4. montyyy

    montyyy Member

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    Hey,

    first of all, I can totally understand you and thanks for not being mad at me. I was pretty mad as I found out people are exploiting calibration, we talked on the server yesterday ugle. You know that the map is awesome. But then again, I can't really understand why some of the best surfers on the servers (they gotta be some of the best, otherwise they wouldn't surf on the top100) would make use of that exploit. I guess we can totally agree that the people, who used the exploit, need to be punished. However the way of punishment can be questioned.

    I thought it would be okay if we can only delete the points which got gained through the exploit and that's exactly what I told @n0name@n0name - Hence he said it's technically not possible. So he suggested -50% lose of points and I went mad at him. I suggested myself then 10% points, he decided to gofor 20% though.

    As I said, it's totally fine for me people got punished and I guess we all agree on that, we might need to discuss how people should be punished though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2016
  5. Uglefar

    Uglefar Member

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    Personally Im not sure why all of a sudden this exploit is punished this hard. We have before seen people ending runs on a crouchboost. Is that not an exploit of the map too? What about some of the other exploits we have seen aswell from time to time? Why was the map just deleted when there was an exploit on surf_faint_fix and surf_wood?

    I cannot argue against a punishment though. It's fair, and I'll take it. I might have prefered the same punishment for everyone in form of maybe 2500 points? Just an example on the numbers, but I can't see why Uri was punished 30.000+ points when other "only" lose around 10.000. As the point system is on this server, it does not make any sense.
     
  6. n0name

    n0name Administrator

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    This rather falls under "Abusing exploits" than glitching, so I removed more points.
    I am willing to go down to 2-3% point removal, but please make sure to report glitches/exploits next time instead of (ab)using them.
     
  7. Uglefar

    Uglefar Member

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    Is this a comment about not removing points when the faint_fix exploit was used? Or when crouchboost is abused? I don't really understand this.

    I still think percentile removal of points is not the right way to go because of how the points system is on the server. You really only gain points by completing more maps and completing maps over and over again, so why would you punish the people who played a lot on your server harder, than people who don't.
     
  8. n0name

    n0name Administrator

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    Nobody reported the explot here, so no action was taken.
    Unfortunately, the Timer plugin is quite.. shit in logging, so we can't remove exactly the amount of points which were cheated.

    Another options would be 600-1,000 points for each person.
     
  9. Uglefar

    Uglefar Member

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    That is fair.

    Thank you for taking this thread in consideration.
     
  10. n0name

    n0name Administrator

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    All points should have been reverted (minus the 600-1000 points punishment).
    If there are still points missing, please, send me a PM.

    In the future, we will no longer do point removals, but rather hand out bans to those who massively use such exploits.
     
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