Rejected Admin Report - Bambi | http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198105912034

Discussion in 'Archived Reports' started by OOF/Medic Chan owo, Mar 11, 2018.

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  1. OOF/Medic Chan owo

    OOF/Medic Chan owo Member

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    Admin

    Date/time
    2:25 - 2:45pm EST 03-11-18

    Server
    TF2 - Jailbreak NY | US1-22

    Description
    Admin banned a user for "Mass Free Kill" although the user hasn't freekilled. The user (who was warden) told the reds to go to the start of obby (which on the map was a green line). Players proceeded to cross this line so they were KOS. As the warden killed the KOS Players the admin banned the user for Mass Free Kill.

    User: Alproto

    Admin: Bambi

    Evidence: Time 0:23:10 - 0:24:00

    Evidence
    Video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvfjrhwdhkwubfc/2018-03-11 14-09-29.mp4?dl=0 (sorry for dropbox the file website said it doesn't support mp4)|Apeal from user: https://forums.f-o-g.eu/threads/server-ban-appeal-alproto.18101/
     
  2. Solid

    Solid Snake? Snake?! SNAAAAAAAAAAKE?!?!?!? Member

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    First of all, the evidence does not contain any of the things you accused Bambi for. Second of all I think the ban on Alproto is justified. Hear me out on this one:
    To clarify my interpretation I used the map casuarina for example.
    casuarimna.PNG
    Here you can see a yellow line. This is to indicate the start of obby. When players cross this line it does NOT mean they've started obby. In order to start you need to jump through the tiny window. Hence making the circled little area the "starting area".
    The exact same thing goes with fuckzz. In order to actually start the obby you need to pass the ramp. This is again the so called "starting area".
    So in my opinion the ban is justified and should not be lifted.

    EDIT: It was in preview mode. Only saw the first 15 minutes. Watched the whole clip now but it still does not invalidate what I just said.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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  3. OOF/Medic Chan owo

    OOF/Medic Chan owo Member

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    The video does show the evidence
     
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  4. Bambi :)

    Bambi :) The American Senior Server Admin

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    This video doesn't even show the incident your talking about itself since your just inside a wall and all you can see is kill feed, And I have nothing to hide here.(other then my terrible mic quality)

    This starts at 19:50 in your video where Alproto says "go to the start of obby." Now first off on this map, Jb_fuckzz, there is no clear starting point for obby. It's just a green line with a ramp in front with no indication of what the start even is. The order does not specifically say the green line in front of the start of obby so being on the ramp in front of the green line is still the start of obby. If wardens orders were, "Go to the green line in front of the start of obby" this would be justified but that order was never given and everyone that was on the ramp was killed which was at least 8 people based off the kill feed alone. The one week ban is without a doubt in my mind justified as both of you should know the rules by now being here as often as you 2 are.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  5. yperz

    yperz Member

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  6. spindel

    spindel VIP Member

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    He clearly said "all reds go to the start of obby and afk freeze" and because "- ALWAYS do as the Warden says and do it as quickly as possible, even if the order is not very specific." is a rule the reds should had been afk frozen the same second they touched the starting part of obby (which means you should be close to the line and not at the ramp which most of those who got killed was at).
    And I don't think he should have been banned for a week because of some misunderstandings/miscommunications, maybe guardbanned for a few hours but not a week from the server
     
  7. Solid

    Solid Snake? Snake?! SNAAAAAAAAAAKE?!?!?!? Member

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    So you're saying that people are kos the second they don't afk freeze (in this case). Let's pretend we're in the mario map. And I say rush to the start of RED mario kart. People won't stop the second they're in the door opening. They run inside the room which is the purpose. People need time to release of their W button. Besides that, if this were to be true, that wouldn't make up for the fact that he killed almost everyone who crossed the green line. Even the ones who were near it.
    I do agree with this. However that does not make this ban invallid.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  8. spindel

    spindel VIP Member

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    yes because the order was clearly to afk freeze when you got to the obby, afk freeze if you have forgoten is to not move your keyboard nor your mouse (aka do nothing)

    since you didn't say afk freeze when you get to the red mario kart they can move around there yes, if you said afk freeze when you get there and they run into the room they are kos and if you don't kill them you are technically favortising, same thing with the popular order go to the yellow line and afk freeze, if you don't go to afk when you get to the line instantly you are kos


    if thats an actual use able excuse we would need to remove minigames/respawn people that dies in minigames that punishes people for holding down a key for to long such as crush game, sweeper, stairway to heaven, obby, last reaction first reaction and etc.


    the only person who slightly of the line and did nothing else wrong was the engi with the saxton hat, so yes he did freekill one person (or maybe the engi freelooked when yperz didn't have him under viewpoint)
    [​IMG]
    the scout was freelooking during the order to afk freeze before and then tried to run the opposite way of obby
    [​IMG]
    the pyro was freelooking might have moved a bit
    [​IMG]
    (side note he favortised the heavy and this engi)
    [​IMG]
    so it boils down to one freekill and favoring two people

    I'm getting mixed signals from this, are you saying that the full on one week ban from the server for 1 freekill and two favoring people is valid or not?

    also a side note, @yperz@yperz I don't know if it was my settings that screwed themself over but if it wasn't do yourself a favour and disable motion blur
     
  9. Solid

    Solid Snake? Snake?! SNAAAAAAAAAAKE?!?!?!? Member

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    I meant to say AFK freeze. (What I tried proving there is that no one will AFK freeze in the door opening which is the entry point and the first moment they touch the start.)
    Not an excuse. You go up that ramp way faster than you think. Besides, we're talking about a poorly executed order. Not a minigame, so I don't get what you try to achieve by saying this. Another example is that if the warden says "Go to this cell and AFK freeze" They wouldn't be standing in the doorway of the cell now would they? They'd go inside the cell.
    Perhaps I overreacted a little bit. But then again. I still think he freekilled the rest since that is the starting point. And claiming to do everything precisely (Instantly stop on the green line else KOS) is not right. The order was to get to the start of obby and AFK freeze once you get there. And in my opionion everyone did. They didn't start nor detour nor delay.
    What I mean by this, is that I would've handled it another way myself. But that does not make up for the fact that these weren't freekillis. Hence the ban is justified.
     
  10. spindel

    spindel VIP Member

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    minigames such as those I mentioned punishes you for having bad movement timing, if minigames can do it then why can't wardens orders not do it? And if wardens orders can't punish people for having bad timing on movement why can minigames do it?

    Here is the thing though, the reds should be standing in the doorway and the warden has the full right to kill the once who went deeper in since they didn't go afk when they reached the cell, since most wardens usually are not that strict with these situations you and others has probably built up missunderstanding for these situations, you should keep this in mind

    let me give an example of another situation that a lot of wardens/guards are usually not strict about but has full right to be strict about if they want to due to the "- ALWAYS do as the Warden says and do it as quickly as possible, even if the order is not very specific." rule

    If the reds are at the black area and the warden says "go on a podium at sweeper and afk freeze" they should take the once with green around since they are the closest, going for the other once is delaying
    [​IMG]
    if we really want to stretch it and take in count that it takes 10k hours in comp to master matching movement speed to land on the green line (like you made it sound like) and they should be excused for walking further I decided lets examinate
    (spoiler most of them were not afk frozen when they released the w key)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] this sniper has no excuse to crouch and swing his melee

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] the medic with the green gibus walked backwards and the medic with the brown hat moved to the side
    [​IMG]
    so no, he didn't freekill the rest since they were not afk frozen when they reached the start and unhold w
    so that rises the amount of freekills up to 3 (and that is if you really stretch it, I still think that the sniper and the heavy has no excuse to be where they are since they should had gone afk frozen the same second they were on the green line )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2018
  11. Solid

    Solid Snake? Snake?! SNAAAAAAAAAAKE?!?!?!? Member

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    So I talked in private with @Spindel@Spindel and we've come to a compromise. We both agreed that the ban length is too long and should be reduced/removed since the freekills were not intentional to be freekills. And about the "You started the game so you're KOS" thing" and the "Starting area". We will leave @Faggot@Faggot for the final verdict on those. I do wish for this report to be rejected since the admin nor the players didn't know any better. It was pure miscommunications. Even regulars seemed confused by it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  12. Faggot

    Faggot Get lost Server Manager VIP

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    Alright, I came to the conclusion to reject this report, the Admin was pretty new and that was a pretty bad part to start out off as the ramp was always seen as starting area but there is no real rule to define where the starting area would be or if it only includes the lines.

    I have decided to remove the ban on Alproto.

    For now as I do not have an idea of what a rule defining the start could look like, please just be a bit more tolerant with the start of obby and maybe if they are a little off just leave them or tell them where they should stand(unless they are really far off obviously).

    Closing and moving
     
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