Rejected 76561197966756586 ([SC-Λ]Wayne S>150 Unusuals)

Accused:
| steamname: [SC-Λ]Wayne S>150 Unusuals
| steam3ID: [U:1:6490858]
| steamID32: STEAM_0:0:3245429
| steamID64: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197966756586
| customURL: http://steamcommunity.com/id/TrainWithWayne
| steamrep: http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561197966756586

Traded with obvious scammer banned on outpost:
| steamname: munch
| steam3ID: [U:1:127797847]
| steamID32: STEAM_0:1:63898923
| steamID64: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198088063575
| customURL:
| steamrep: http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561198088063575

User was banned on op for 11 months

Wayne is one of the most high tier traders, he should have known better

History - backpack.tf
History - backpack.tf

 

Looks legit to me, RIP Wayne I guess, gotta be more careful, Id suggest reporting to outpost and bazaar also.

 

As I've been informed by Outpost, this matter has already been investigated and has been dropped. Therefor i'm archiving this report as well since there haven't been any action taken back then nor now.

 

I've decided to reopen this report and do some extra research as I'm not completely satisfied.

 

User was not banned on OP for 11 months. He was banned for 6 months. The trade occurred in January and the ban was in june. In spite of this, the user never received bans on any other communities for this apparent "gift wrap scam" Nor did outpost decide a scammer tag was warranted for this apparent gift wrap scam.

Also no evidence of a scam is visible for anyone to judge themselves if the user is a scammer.

 

He was banned for 11 months, and Wayne could have easily checked outpost

 

TF2 Outpost / User / munch User was banned between 11-12 months ago from today (as shown)

History - backpack.tf Trade occurred January 12 or so (5 months ago) 11 - 5 = 6 months from before the trade.

Also where is wayne going to check to see if the user was a scammer? Outpost has 6 months to get this user tagged and they didn't. That would be on OP not on Wayne. Not being tagged, yet banned would suggest the evidence doesn't warrant a tag

 

Stop trying to defend Wayne when he is CLEARLY in the wrong, it doesn't matter if he was tagged or not on steamrep, he was banned on outpost _FOR SCAMMING_. It has been confirmed by Toughsoxs trading with someone banned on OP for scamming is trading with a scammer, I will find the post right now.

EDIT:
Obvious includes the realm of actual scammers also, not just there alts.

 

Where did I say I was defending him. I was supplying factual evidence in the case.

 

Also, munch was banned on backpack.tf during the trade im sure

 

2 Big points.

1.) Was not at the time, marked on Steam Rep (Not even Caution)
2.) Had no pending reports on Steam Rep to my knowledge (Checked past historical data) at the time of the trade.


I don't know for sure when or how this trade went down, but I assure you his rep was clean if I made a transaction with him, at least at the time it was, it's clear that is no longer the case.

Not only does it appear I lost money on that transaction, (40-50 Key item Vs 50 Key Item), it appears that the user (The scammer in this case) had no pending report on Steam Rep.

A well known Steam Rep plug-in on many (9/10) Unusual / Well known trading servers, have the the !SR, a action that will bring up the users Steam Rep.

If outpost did not mark them for months later, or any of the users that claim to have been scammed by him, make a report on Steam Rep, one where I can view, if this were in steam reps hands, i'm sure this would be closed (personal opinion at this point) due to the user not being marked on Steam Rep at time of trade. Granted there were other means to find out rep, but if trading with a user that is banned on Outpost Tag worthy, then maybe the mark should have been implemented.


I am unaware if the user was at the time banned on Backpack.tf, like I said this trade was many moons ago. But it is clear that the users negative rep, did not start until months after (at least the negative rep found on Backpack.tf Trust)

http://backpack.tf/trust/76561198088063575

If the user should have been marked by TF2OP, and I made a trade with this user who was not marked (But should have been), I can't help that. Not something I can fix, and it's not my job to do.

Just because they have turned scammer now, does not mean they were a scammer at that time.

You act as if I should have known better, know better then to what? Trade with users that are not SR Marked? Clearly he was not marked.

Nothing out of the blue, on Steam Rep (the site you're currently trying to get me marked on) stands out as concerning at that point in time.

 

Guide for Background Checks - Rules, Guides, and How Tos - backpack.tf forums

"We consider scammers (again, this is just a colloquial term, in lieu of a better one) to be:

Users that are marked on SR for any kind of offense, be it impersonation of an admin, quickswitching, fencing for scammers, etc.

Users that are banned on Outpost for scamming related offenses, these are mostly, but not limited to, giftwrap, Steam gift (games) and paypal scamming as well as friend impersonation and steam wallet scams (trade offers promising to pay x amount for your items). Sharking is not included in this list, as we consider it to be bad practice, but not scamming per se."

PSA: Trading with bp.tf automatic WILL count towards your trades with scammers on TF2Outpost - Team Fortress 2 Economy - backpack.tf forums

Pretty sure there's also something in the above 9 pages about not trading with banned OP accounts (regardless of whether automatic is used).

Why OP don't tag users:
"A potential TF2OP API has been discussed exhaustingly in the past and may be implemented sometime in the future. But there are a few reservations we have about that, most importantly, that we do now want to be Steamrep 2.0. Our bans are based on our findings, they carry no weight in terms of restrictions to other sites and we do not want to get in that business either. It just so happens that we have the most comprehensive ban list regarding scammers and scammer alts, but these are banned by our standards, according to our rules, which may or may not differ from other sites view on the matter.

Of course it would be great if there was a way to reduce redundancies in checking users, but that would ultimately lead to us having to implement a tagging system similar to SRs, and that is the point where our reservations come into play. We do not want to be a community police, we are a trading site and are quite busy with what we are doing already."

http://rep.tf/ is an easy and useful way to check rep and was available at the time of the trade iirc.

 

1) Just because the user is not banned on steamrep does not mean its safe to trade with them, example: Guy has an alt account he wants to unload his scammed unusuals on, not marked, so safe to trade right? Nah..

2) We all know SteamRep has a staff problem so they cannot mark people 24/7, but him being banned on outpost for scamming IS enough to qualify him as a scammer, whether he was marked on steamrep or not, as I said in a previous post Toughsoxs confirmed that being banned on outpost for scamming means you cant trade with them.

3) As the user above me said ^^^

All in all it looks like you slipped up on this trade wayne, and you are going to need to face the consequences for it.

 

If he was a SCAMMER ALT his profile would have indicated.

Steam Rep can't mark 24/7 but this was not 24 hours, not 1 week, not even 30 days, it was months.

I see no reason why this would be taken seriously Vs me, but if you feel it should be, then feel free to investigate all you like. I made a million and half trades a day, and it's my job to check everyone's rep. If Steam Rep or FOG feel a trade made with a non-SR marked user, non-ovbs alt of a scammer because I checked there Steam Rep and not there Outpost then so be it.

I can't see how Steam Rep (or outpost) over months, could not tag this user for the safety of the users who may trade with him in the future (between the time of ban on outpost and the time of Scammer Tag on Steam Rep )
*I am aware of how busy many of the TF2 Outpost / SR Admins are, but all scammers should be equal priority.

Look at the report I filed a week/2 weeks ago. It was completed and the accused MARKED for scamming, shortly after. (It did not take months)

From the looks of it this user has had many scam victims, none, not even a improperly formatted report was open (to my knowledge) during the time of the trade.

Guide for Background Checks - Rules, Guides, and How Tos - backpack.tf forums

^^ Above is the guide you so famously quote from, let me do the same.

"No trading with scammer alts. We do not encourage our users trading with scammers, and you should be careful to not trade with obvious alternate accounts of scammers. Please check the user's Steam profile and SteamRep status before trading with them."

To sum it up:

The better the deal you are being offered, the more suspicious you should be.

If you have any questions, please go ahead and ask here.

*Disclaimer:

I am not speaking officially on behalf of Outpost. The above statements are what I learned in my ~8 months of being a moderator there and can be subject to change at any time.


I presume the trade happened in a server, i.e I check SR with !SR and check profile if nothing looks out of the ordinary and I am not getting a fantastic deal, then it would be impossible for me to see any read flags, he even currently has 4,000+ hours in TF2. (I can assume 3,700 of those hours, were not since I traded with him)

If Fog / Steam Rep or Outpost for that matter, feels that something that could maybe get you banned "quotes from a TF2 Outpost not speaking on Outposts behalf" on there site, warrents a Steam Rep Mark, then so be it.

"You are accountable for any trades you make with users that have a private profile. You should be taking as many measures as possible to prevent hijackers and scammers from profiting from their bad deeds, and private profiles are usually a red flag."

Quote from Toughsox in the PSA about Backpack.tf bots: "Both Valve and SteamRep have already made this crystal clear. YOU are responsible for anything that happens to with or on your account. "

I stand by this, as most community including ones I am currently or been a part of in the past, it's how my brain works.

I presume admins / mods will be adding me about the report, just make a comment on my profile and I will add you, I don't feel I should need to defend myself at this point anymore (this may change) to users that are bias and want me gone

- Wayne

 

It doesn't matter how clean the user is on any other websites, I received a caution from FoG for making trades with completely unmarked alts. Some of the alts that I had traded with remain unbanned on tf2outpost, backpack.tf, and steamrep.

This was a genuine scammer, and if this scammer had made an alt to evade that outpost ban, you would have been trading with a scammer alt. The trade was still one with a scammer, and should be judged accordingly.

 

Ok one last thing before I leave this to admins! (I forgot to add this)

Quote from backpack.tf admin
"We expect all users to check the following on all trades greater than 50 keys in value - you must check (1) the SteamRep status, (2) the steam community profile, (3) backpack.tf profile for bans marking them as a scammer or scammer alt, and (4) outpost profile for bans marking them as a scammer or scammer alt. #1 and #2 remain unchanged from the discussion mentioned before. However, in situations where the value of the item exceeds 50 keys in value, we expect users to complete a more thorough background check regarding where they are getting their items from."

Even the trade I did was not above 50 Keys. Or 50 keys. 40-50 = 45? Not only was this a downgrade, it was lower then the threshold for checking #3 ,#4 according to backpack.tf.

 

Both items were worth above 50 keys at the time of the trade.

Item Information - Circling TF Logo Exquisite Rack - backpack.tf
Item Information - Sunbeams Big Country - backpack.tf

The majority of SR reports are left open for months, years even. Your report was a special case. In this case, it is your responsibility to check who you were ttading with.

TF2 Outpost / User / munch has been flagged as a gift wrap scammer by outpost for 11 months (6 months at the time of the trade).

Rep.TF shows this.

Also,

 

Commonly steamrep reports are open for more then years, this is no different.

That is because they do not have enough staff to.

That is because you are wayne, one of the top 10 richest people in tf2.

So it is YOUR responsibility to check on this, you decide know that this user had many scam victims, but not before you trade? So much for checking thoroughly..

Your shooting yourself in the leg here, "We do not encourage our users trading with scammers" and you knowingly traded with a scammer..

 

Notes:

Hidden Content:

**Hidden Content: Content of this hidden block can only be seen by members of (usergroups: Legacy Trade Moderator).**

 

Extra Proof
TF2 Outpost / Item
TF2 Outpost / User / Wayne C-String Train

He had already been warned before, he ignored the warnings and made a a trade afterwards.