Resolved The Golden Werewolf

Admin Name: The Golden Werewolf
Time: 26.01.2013 11:00, and previous times.
Server: Trade/Idle
Description: Well, I've been noticing this for a while now, and its not right. Golden likes to ban people for a day for killing in the library without any prior warnings of their wrong-doing. I like to @@@, slay, kick, then ban for like an hour nowadays, which is better because it keeps player counts up, which is what we need in these times. He states that people should check the rules when they join, and he attempts to justify this by saying that's what he would do, but truthfully, no-one really bothers to type !rules. He says we aren't meant to warn them, which is just complete idiocy. Library killing isn't really a "bad" offence, and a day ban for that with no prior warning is just ridiculous.

Proof: Just look on our SourceBans and chat logs.

 

I'd appreciate it if you at least asked me to stop this before going straight to reporting me for it, especially with the way you said it, I gave you reasoning, you said "idgaf" you could easily have asked me politely instead of being rude and obnoxious.

there's constant spam on the servers about reading rules (Via other admins and the automated chat itself) meaning people have no way to plead ignorance.

If you really wanted this to stop, you would have asked me politely, but it seems by the way you were talking to me that you're either an angry person, or I've seriously pissed you off in the space of five minutes by doing what I've done for the last few months.

 

Your reasoning wasn't the best reasoning in the world either.

 

Well, neither is this the topic nor is this to discuss.
I'll have to agree with Goldie. It's true that not reading the rules is mearly impossible. Furthermore, slaying isn't very effective.
I try to kick offenders, but if someone is killed just after I spammed the rules I tend to ban them.
Also, most bans only last 2 hrs, so they can deal with it.
And yes!, we are not here to warn the players. Eventhough we do. Spamming the rules is obligated for every admin, but we administrators, not rule-spammers. If they don't read the rules, it's their problem.

 

1. This topic is perfectly reasoned.
2. I said, people don't type !rules, and Golden doesn't even make an attempt at showing people these rules, since not killing in a certain place is a fairly obscure rule. Slaying is effective, when combined with an @@@ message or a warn/slay/kick/short ban procedure.
3. Good for you.
4. Golden goes straight to 1-day-long bans, which is stupid considering donations are important. Lol, we're gonna get billions by banning people for obscure rules they broke they didn't know existed without warning.
5. Warning people comes hand in hand with administrating/moderating in general.
6. If they don't see the rules in the first place, its the admin's fault.

 

I gotta go with Sam on this one.
I stated my opinion on that topic already on Ridphoguy-Carls ban appeal. Even if it was a little off-topic back then it pretty much fits now and sums up what I think about this whole thing. I doubt that everybody read that threat so I'm just gonna quote myself, to spare me to write it again.

"The thing is, I just witnessed a lot of 24h bans without a kick as a warning beforehand. I'm not saying that this is always the case and won't say any names but it happens A LOT lately. I know it's up to the admin to set the duration and the reasons and the whatnots for the bans, but since I know that we are/were kind of struggeling with a solid playercount on our servers I think it won't help us that much if we instantly ban players out of the blue for 24 hours even if they're supposed our little Rule Pop-Up"

"Alrighty. I usually don't like to repeat myself and it might not belong here but I'll make an exception. My complain is not about the banlenght, you can go all out if you fancy, I couldn't care less if it is reasonable. The little thing that bothers me is that lately there are bans out of nowhere. The rule pop-up appears let's say every 2 minutes. Some Admins don't even use it and the ones that do always put a little delay of approximately 2 minutes in between. Two minutes is a hell of a lot time to run from your spawn into the library and kill a couple guys, without you even knowing that we have this "No Library Killing"-Rule. So he's gonna get a 24h ban just after he joined the server and with absolutely no idea what the heck he did wrong. And that you are supposed to read our rules beforehand.. might be a valid argument but come on. If you join aaaany other trade-server no one can tell me that the first thing he does is typing !rules or something like that. Again I'm totally fine with 24h bans after several warnings and the guy just not getting it, but this instant bans just annoy the fuck out of me. Excuse my language there."

Pretty much what Sam says, only from my point of view.

 

The problems on that server wouldn't exist if you didn't have that stupid rule. You probably know very well that you have created the need for so many admins all in vain.
You don't see what an impact it has on this whole community with so many banned players? For the sake of this community, remove the library rule. Tough luck my friends, but you wouldn't be needed there
as much as you are at this point without it. Everytime I join there all I see is admins barricading some areas because you have lost control over the situation. Why create new problems instead of solving the
main problem? Should be a lot easier.

Edit: One more thing, there is no reason to kick some admins out from there, you all could stay even without that rule. There are other problems there too, as we all know.
But it should be a hell lot easier for everyone if you could focus on other things than just the library. Come join us at 2Fort sometime, and you'll see what a difference it is when
admins allow players to be a little more free. They enjoy themselves and they don't break rules very often either as an effect. At least the regulars don't.

 

You have to count that 2Fort is a competitive map, and trade_rawr is a trade map. And there are rules for giving admins a job. I usually give ome warnings like kicks and @@@ commands, then I ban. The problem is that if someone doesn't understands the thing you want him to understand, you can't let it go.
If you're giving troubles and I kick you, I think that's obvious to not do the thing you were doing before getting kicked. Or even re-logging and asking what went wrong. After that, why would you do the same thing again? Free Ban? However, I think that 1 day ban is enough for people who just don't understand the meaning of "Stop that, it's against the rules". If we have to remove rules, I'm ok with that. I'd just stand in my spawn or strutting around or even going boxing in the ring.

 

The only difference is the map, players are the same no matter where they are. If it works fine on our server with giving the players some more liberty, it's going to work on trade as well. And as you said, it's a trade server and the combat area is most likely there for testing new equipment out, but there is still a combat area. Of course you get trouble if you let people fight each other everywhere except for one single spot in the middle of it. You don't have to be a genious to figure out why it's going to be a lot of rulebreaking there.
Just to clearify one thing, I agree with you that there is not much else to do but to ban them if they continue to break the rules, but banning them straight away for a day is just stupid. There is absolutely no reason for that.

My point with all this is that what Golden Werewolf is doing is an effect of that rule, which obviously don't work at all.

 

Since this post I've agreed to no longer ban people unless they're kicked/warned thoroughly. Next time ask me before reporting me. Thanks.

 

Sometime it's actually better having an open discussion about things, so that more people eventually will learn something from it.